Bert McCraken (The Used) Interview

Room Thirteen caught up with Bert McCraken of The Used to get an overview of his personal experience with Pink Floyd's body of work and their influence on The Used, and somehow managed to have time to talk about cooking, reading, screaming and dildos plus extrapolate an honest review of their back catalogue.

R13: Are you a big Pink Floyd Fan?
Bert McCracken: I love Pink Floyd. Yes.

R13: Would you be happy to do an overview of some of their albums?
Bert: Overview? Sure.

R13: Do you have any strong feelings towards their first two psychedelic records The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and a Saucerful of Secrets done with Syd Barret?
Bert: I listened to these records after I had become familiar with Pink Floyd. They definitely didn't mean as much to me as The Wall and Dark Side of the Moon. Definitely a little bit less inspiring for me, that's not really an overview (laughs).

R13: So what was your gateway album into Pink Floyd?
Bert: My gateway was The Wall. I like the second disc a little bit better.
R13: I found it a very dark album.
Bert: Yeah. In that time in my life I was into some really dark things. When I got into Pink Floyd I had just started taking drugs, drinking very heavily, and I felt like a lot of those songs really touched me in ways I had never heard artists speak before, especially in the lyrics.

R13: Do specific drugs complement or enhance the listening experience of certain albums?
Bert: Yeah, when I first took LSD I heard things in The Wall that I had never heard before and I had listened to it 6-8 months before that. I definitely heard the songs in a different way. It enhanced them for me in a better way but drugs are really fragile and it can turn on you really quick and it did for me especially with The Wall.
R13: Yeah, because it is such a dark album I suppose and finishes with (the main character) Pink's total isolation.
Bert: Yes. Definitely. I felt that. Being exposed to that while being in a heavily drug induced state of mind kinda set me up for a huge depression, it was hard to snap out of, for about 6 months.

R13: The Wall and The Final Cut, which came after it, are famous concept albums which both have story lines. What are your opinions on concept albums in general?
Bert: I think that concept albums are amazing it's just that not a lot of people have the ability to make a concept album that appeals to a lot of the general public. It's really hard to make a tasty concept that people can get into. But if the concept is there and it works, concept albums are some of my favourite things.

R13: The Used have had themes to the albums, would you ever do a full-blown concept album? Do you consider that you already have?
Bert: I like the idea of concepts in songs that kind of trade out throughout the record. I really haven't had the balls to go for a full concept record up to this point. But I am getting a lot deeper into my own personal writing, and my writing style and I think that someday I could really look forward to doing something amazing with a concept record.

R13: Lies For The Liars was almost a double album, like The Wall was a double album. You also had an intense creative period after surgery when around 60 songs were written, so would The Used ever do a double album?
Bert: Yeah. We have had ideas to do a double album in the past. Being on Warner Brothers Records, they always shut us down. We thought about a bunch of different ideas for doing a double record; maybe a heavy record and a light record; or an acoustic record and an electric record. But Warner Brothers quickly shot down all these ideas. Now that we are doing it all ourselves and we own our own production company I think it would be a lot easier for us to accomplish something like that, for sure.

R13: You have mentioned before that with Anger Music Group you can do other projects besides music. The Wall and The Final Cut were made into a film and a short film respectively. The music video for I Come Alive was kind of like a short. Would The Used ever consider doing a film to accompany a piece of their work?
Bert: I would absolutely love that. That is why I was so passionate about The Wall to begin with. The visuals that they let us have behind (the music) are such an incredible thing. So I would love to, I love film and the rest of the band (do as well). It's something we are all really passionate about. I've been behind the scenes co-directing all the last videos we have done, just to get some experience. So hopefully in the future we can.

R13: Which horror movies specifically inspired the video for I Come Alive?
Bert: In a big way the movie Bully. It came out quite a while ago about the kids in South Florida who end up killing their friend. Also any horror movie that I have been in love with that is full of gratuitous violence. I love Takashi Miike films, John Carpenter films, and I have always wanted to play with that idea of shock value and tonnes of blood. So it was more than exciting for me to do that.

R13: When the blood is spurting out of the victims to the baseball bat is it coloured? Is it meant to be paint or blood? What was the desired effect upon the audience?
Bert: We wanted to have a more playful vibe rather than straight in-your-face-shocking so we made the blood yellow and blue and purple, but to keep it serious in the end, that last blood we made black so it had that ultimate gut wrenching feeling. We didn't want people to take the video too literally. We are not speaking out against anything or trying to say anything in particular. It's definitely just a piece of art. We don't condone violence in any way. Our idea for visual concept was just that and we all love gratuitous violence, especially in film.

R13: Will Anger Music Group release your cook book? When is that coming out?
Bert: I'm still working on it, I don't want to put out a half-assed cook book. I want people to take it seriously so I want to have a plethora of recipes. I'm constantly working, I probably currently have a bit over 150 recipes right now, but I'd like it to be thick. Maybe a pass beyond 300 recipes. So I'm about half way through, and as soon as it is done, you'll know about it. We'll definitely put it out through Anger Music Group, probably fronted by another company to help with the distribution. Just like Hopeless is doing for our record.

R13: Do you have any help in writing the recipes and in writing the cook book?
Bert: No, it's all me. I read a lot of cook books and I cook all the time. I'm really passionate about food. I think it is an amazing way to feed your creative soul, if you will, so I am kind of just running with it. Format is so unimportant as far as cook books go in my opinion. So we will see what we can come up with.

R13: How was music received differently when Pink Floyd were making ground-breaking records?
Bert: I think it was a lot easier to be yourself back then. Maybe it was a little bit easier to be judged by people around you. Art wasn't necessarily embraced as much as it is today. I think there is so much pretentious art out today and people are trying to act a certain way to get attention. It seems like frontmen in bands have all these different, 'quirky' rituals, and other things in their lives that aren't necessarily authentic. They have created these things for themselves to try and be that over exaggerated frontman. I have lots of examples in mind, but nobody I would actually want to sell out. Except for Jared Leto. In his case I think the true madness behind his art was the true madness in his mind. That is so authentic that it can't be forced or faked.

R13: Pink Floyd got back together to play at Live8. What do you think about reunions?
Bert: I think in that case, especially for a band like Pink Floyd, it's incredible 'cos you know they are not doing it for money.
R13: They gave the money they got from increased album sales to the Live8 cause anyway.
Bert: Yeah, it's true. You see a lot of bands that have got back together, especially this last year, At the Drive-in, Refused. I love what they play but I'm just hoping it's for the right reasons. I didn't get to see At the Drive-in but I've only heard horrible things about them. Like they acted like snobs and they weren't really that into it. In my opinion what's the point? I went and saw Refused not at Coachella but at the FYF Festival and they came out swinging! They were like a sharpened blade. They had so much energy and Dennis (Lyxzen) was so humble about his art. He even went as far as to say, "we thought we were too cool to play these songs 15 years ago, but thanks to the fans we are back out here. It is only because of the fans we do this." I thought that was pretty cool. Whether he's faking it or not I couldn't tell.

R13: Refused have dedicated songs from their live sets to Pussy Riot. The Used are going to play a few shows in Russia coming up. How do you feel about going to that country at this point in time?
Bert: Yeah it's insane - the whole idea of being arrested for saying things against the state or against the government or what have you, but we are not a very controversial band we don't really take a lot of pride in our political views. It is still incredible that that kind of police state mind still exists in this world. I don't know, I can't believe it, but bad things happen all over to good people. (sighs).

R13: The friendships in Pink Floyd have strengthened since they got back together for that one off show. Mason and Gilmore have performed on Waters recent tour of The Wall. Is it ok to get back together once you are friends again? What is the prerequisite for a reunion to be done in the right manner?
Bert: I think that being friends is ultimately going to translate live. A band that is friends is always extremely tighter, more energetic, more focused, and it allows the artist to have fun while they are performing. Friendship allows us to not take ourselves so seriously, which is always a good thing. Maybe the At the Drive-in guys just still aren't friends! I dunno!

R13: Are you now friends with Ex The Used drummer Branden Steineckert?
Bert: Yeah, 100%. The very first show on the Warped Tour was Salt Lake City, and we brought him up to play A Box Full Of Sharp Objects with us, which was incredible.

R13: You did a Tweet out to PartySoberClothing, have you followed Branden in his straight edge lifestyle?
Bert: No. I think everyone should believe, and live their life exactly how they want to live their life. It is a friend of mines clothing company and I like to support art no matter what. There was a lot of trashy feedback initially about people that like to get fucked up. If you like to party that's your life, that's your deal. If you don't like to party, that's also your deal. For me, I don't have any strong opinions here or there. I've partied enough for, probably, half of my fans put together. So for me it is more about the love of music and it is more about what I can give back to the world at this point in my life.

R13: Do you have any opinions about the DJ from Limp Bizket, who just got kicked out of the band for partying?
Bert: If it's reckless abandonment and if the passion is not there then it can't really exist. Drugs and alcohol can definitely take away your ambition, if you let it. So if drinking and drugging is not working for you, I strongly suggest you find something that does.

R13: You have talked about supporting art, and recently you have promised to make personal phone calls to all those who donate 10 dollars + pledges to Mataji Bookers recording costs. How many pledges have there been? Have you got through all those phone calls?
Bert: Quite a few more than I ever anticipated! Let me check, and I can tell you for sure; I have definitely called about 100 people. It seems like every time I call someone and delete the phone number from my email five more pop up. Which is incredible. For me to be able to give back that way allows me the humility and the substance for life, and inspires me in my own art. The fact that people still care about music enough to donate their hard earned money in this day and age, where money is tough.

R13: Who are the typical people who donate towards this?
Bert: I wouldn't say there is any type of 'typical' person. It seems to me just like people who love music as much as I do and are true music fans. A lot of people are talking shit on Kickstarter too which baffles me because I guess people just don't understand how tough it is to really make it and get your music out there nowadays. Kids tend to think that bands are rich and loaded, and taking advantage of them. What kids don't understand is that there is no fame or fortune in Rock n Roll any more; it's not the eighties. We are all just struggling. The Used go on tour and come back having barely broken even, which people don't really understand. So if you're doing this, you are making music because you love music nowadays, especially if you have been doing it for quite some time.

R13: You were saying it is nice to give something back, and have recently got professional help to deal with an addiction to pain pills you developed after your accident falling off stage. Would you therefore ever consider becoming either an advocate or a spokesperson for a charity that encourages people to talk about their problems with professionals?
Bert: Yeah, definitely. There are people out there who have studied addiction and studied psychological problems in the brain for years and years so help is out there if you need it. I think that people just have a hard time, especially with drugs and issues of addiction, admitting that they have a problem. I would like to be a shining example wherever I could be. We are doing a lot of work with charity coming up in the future and at this point in my life I love the fact I have the ability to give back to the world. We are headlining the Take Action Tour where a huge percentage of the money we raise will go to a specific charity. We are about to do a big announcement on it so I can't really talk about the charity we have chosen yet.

R13: You have stated that you are most proud of Vulnerable, prior to that with Artwork you had said that you 'had not been as excited about a record since your début'. Bands always claim that their latest release is the best, but have you personally ever believed this not to be the case? Or have the Used simply got better and better since the release of the self-titled debut?
Bert: Well when In Love And Death came out it was the best thing I had ever done. When Lies For The Liars came out it was the second best thing I had done, besides the first two, so maybe the third best. When Artwork came out it was the worst thing I had done. I hated it immediately. I knew that my attempt to therapeutic in my expression, through all the negative shit that was in my head and in my life, just didn't work. It just didn't work for me. I thought that putting it out there would be therapeutic, but it was actually just painful. Still to this day I can't bring myself to...(interrupts himself) there are a few songs I like and there is some clever things on there. Meant To Die is a song I still look back on and think that was a pretty genius idea 'cos we see it every day in our lives; people that actually die because of drugs or prescription drugs. I was in such a bad place in my life when I was making that record. I would be hung over when I came into the studio, I would lie around on the ground while the guys were jamming out. I would drink until I wasn't hung over and I was doing any drug I could find along the way excessively. It became this vicious cycle and I had nothing positive in my heart to give. I was completely void of any spiritual...I consider myself a very spiritual person, but when you have a serious friendship with drugs and alcohol that part of you takes a back seat.

R13: Vulnerable is sort of like the opposite to Artwork. Jepha (bassist) said "if Artwork is night time then Vulnerable would be the day time". Was there a marked shift with you and your approach to that record?
Bert: Yeah, I had a spiritual shift or a change if you will, when writing that record. When I fell off the stage a year and a half ago and broke myself up pretty good, a couple of surgeries later I was eating pain pills all day and was completely unhealthy. I weighed an extra 50 pounds more than I ever had in my life. I just felt like shit, looked like shit. I decided I was done; there needed to be a serious change in my life if I was to feel good about what I was doing. I decided to take it on myself and really go for it. Change is such a slow and progressive entity that the change is still working in my life as we speak. I can't expect to have ten years of practising one thing change overnight. It was just about what I was going through in my life I wasn't really reading, and I love to read. I wasn't really writing, and I love to write. I just knew that things had to change.

R13: What have you been reading recently?
Bert: The last book I read was The Stand but I'm half way through Steven King's Under The Dome right now, which is incredible.

R13: Do you have any favourite authors who you would recommend?
Bert: Yeah Lots. I love Irvine Welsh who wrote Trainspotting and a bunch of other really great books. I love Chuck Palahniuk. Edgar Allan Poe is one of my serious favourites. I love George R R Martin who did Song Of Ice And Fire series. I love chuck Klosterman, he is cool for pop culture kind of books. I'd have to say my favourite author of all time is Steven King and I have rarely read of book of his I don't like. I finished the Dark Tower series, which is absolutely incredible, if you haven't got to check it out; it is worth about five weeks of reading.

R13: Do you have a Kindle or do you read physical books?
Bert: Growing up, whenever I was a good boy or did something amazing, my parents would take me to the book store to get a new book. So physical books to me are still, like a part of my childhood. I love everything about a new book; I love the smell of it and just the feel in my hands. I'd probably drop my Kindle on the second day and have to buy a new one.

R13: Is reading something you like to do on tour?
Bert: Reading is something I like to do always.

R13: A lot of bands say the main trouble with Warped Tour is staving off the boredom. Jepha has said he likes to explore, what is it that you do to stave off the boredom on Warped Tour?
Bert: Well you know they say that if you are bored, you are boring, and I'm not boring, so I never get bored! (Laughs). It gets really hot outside so you have got to be either used to the heat and ready for it, or, in my case, I found I'm really lucky 'cos I like to read and I can just sit around and read for hours at a time, without getting crazy. So for me (Warped Tour) was nice. I got to read more than I have been able to read in the past. We are not as busy as we would be on a headlining tour. The set time is only half an hour. So I got to read all day, it was nice, I killed many books.

R13: Do you do book swaps with any of your friends?
Bert: None of my friends really read - bunch of pussies. I'm constantly trying to swap books, or not even swap books, just give books away to people so I can have someone to talk to. You know the first A Song Of Ice And Fire book 'Game Of Thrones' they made into a series. So I read all five books that are written so far, which are huge - but so worth it! It is such a crazy story. The fantasy is so subtle that it almost seems real. I've been trying to get anyone and everyone I know to read these books so I can actually have someone to talk to. (Laughs).

R13: Going back to Pink Floyd then, quite a lot of their hit records were recorded at Abbey Road studios. Are there any historic studios that The Used wish to record in?
Bert: I love The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Jimmy Hendrix and I have always wanted to record at Abbey Road studios since I was 13 or 14. we got to record at the Olympic studios in London which is also historically incredible. All the same bands and The Who have recorded there so that was absolutely amazing, life changing. For our first time out in London to be able to have me be able to sing into the same mic that Robert Plant sung into, recording in the same booth, smoking cigarettes (that is when you could still smoke cigarettes in London by the way) it was insane. It was awesome.

R13: Pink Floyd were also famous for their stage show. Recent The Used gigs have included stage dressing of what looks like NES controllers, is that indeed what they are?
Bert: Yeah. Jeph is kind of obsessed with video games.
R13: Are you into Retro games yourself?
Bert: I do have a lot of love for old school Nintendo games. When it first came out it was a big part of my life, super mario and all those games. Even before with the atari and commodore 64 was really cool. I don't have a lot of time to play video games now but I definitely love the idea of playing video games.

R13: Pink Floyd have done a couple of soundtrack albums. Would The Used ever do a film soundtrack?
Bert: Love to.

R13: If you could rewrite the score to any film what you go for?
Bert: Ooh that's a really good question (pauses to consider, and reposes the question to himself). It would be really tough to rewrite the score to Pink Floyd's The Wall, wouldn't it?
R13: 'Cos the film was made after the music. So to do a soundtrack for the film would be really interesting.
Bert: Yeah! I love old school horror movies so it would be cool to redo the soundtrack to the first Friday the 13th movie, The Exorcist, or Rosemary's Baby...something old and creepy.

R13: Correct me if I am wrong, but one thing I think I have noticed with Pink Floyd that has influenced The Used is the experimentation in the studio. Specifically their track from Ummagumma: Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Grooving With A Pict, it is the one made up entirely of treated vocals and percussion, and it seems kind of similar to the "it's getting kinda hectic" part at the end of Kiss It Goodbye and the intro to Find A Way. Is that indeed an influence on you?
Bert: Actually when we were writing Find A Way my idea was to kind of make the beginning of Money (does the intro to Pink Floyd's Money). Like all those organic sounds that create this insane beat. That was kind of the inspiration behind doing something like that, but I also love to play around with organic sounds in general, in a percussive way. We love to reach outside what we are comfortable doing in the studio and I think that Pink Floyd were one of the best at doing just that.

R13: They included some accidental sound effects on the album Meddle. Are there any accidental sounds you have come across in the studio while recording that have actually made it to the record?
Bert: Yeah a lot of stuff. John Feldman (The Used's producer for all albums except Artwork) when we are tracking vocals likes to have me go through, once we have finished all the main track parts and the harmonies, he'll have me go through and do an ad lib vocal track. I whisper and make noises and freak out in the background.
R13: It adds a real depth to your albums, which is something that I personally quite like.
Bert: Cool, thank you man. I never really listen to those tracks so when I hear some of those things on the record, at first I'm definitely wondering "woah, what is that? Where did that come from?"

R13: I have noticed that you have this maniacal laugh that comes up on quite a few of the records, and it reminds me of The Pixies. It seems that's something you might have lifted from them. Are you a Pixies fan?
Bert: I do love The Pixies, but that laugh is kind of completely uncontrollable. If I try to do the laugh now usually I can't, I think I comes from pure bliss and happiness. I love to record and I am constantly reminded how lucky I am that I'm able to do what I do with my life.

R13: How do you manage to control it and get it to go with the music then?
Bert: I don't really (laughs). I got lucky.

R13: With those kind of experiments is it all planned out or completely random?
Bert: We've never planned anything but chord structures and lyrics.

R13: What about the toys played on In Love And Death?
Bert: We tried to bring in as many different things into the studio as possible. Dildos, glockenspiels and random things around the house, trash cans.

R13: Who comes up with a crazy idea such as that and how does it manifest itself into being on the record?
Bert: Well it comes from something as simple as "hey Feldy do you have any dildos?" and he would be like "yeah, for what?", I'm like "lets record each other. Fuck each other!" Not really, but anything as simple as that. He would be like "hey Bert lets go out in the living room and smash you with some boxes and see what it sounds like recorded." I'm like "all right, cool."

R13: So is it just for the fun of it or with a certain song in mind?
Bert: Just for the fun of it. Usually when we are tracking a song we will get an idea that fits the vibe.

R13: Like with the hitting you with pots and pans at the end of Choke Me?
Bert: Right. I'm screaming in the studio and he's just like "we should probably start bashing you up!" I was like "all right".
R13: Sounds like a lot of fun!
Bert: Yeah, it is actually.

R13: Pink Floyd have done a lot of 'best of' albums. What are your opinions of best of albums in general? What would be on your best of Pink Floyd?
Bert: umm, I'm the worst at this because I don't particularly like best of albums.
R13: Neither do I. They usually seem to be enforced by record companies just to sell units.
Bert: Exactly. I find when I listen to full records that I find new little gems every time I go through and I'd rather keep it that way. I wouldn't wanna take one song from our first record, two songs from our second, or three songs from our first, four songs from our first, one song from our fifth. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. I think records are snapshots in time and one chapter in that bands life of what was happening in the bigger picture. It doesn't really make sense to take the hits that sold and put them onto one record.

R13: So I'm guessing The Used would never consider putting a best of out then?
Bert: I don't think we have any reason to.

R13: Pink Floyd have also done a few compilation albums like Relics, which I really like as it has gotten me into some of their b-sides and one-off singles which are not on the albums. The Used have done a compilation EP called Shallow Believer. It seems to have enough tracks to qualify it as an album to me, so what makes it an EP?
Bert: The record label did not want to lose one of our records out of our deal so they made us release it as an EP, but I'm right with you. That's a record in my opinion.
R13: If it has got that many tracks and lasts for around 33 minutes it should be classed as an album.
Bert: Yeah. This is the way the record label likes to justify it: if the track was written within the certain writing period of say In Love And Death or Lies For The Liars then it counts as a part of that record. Which is such complete bullshit. It's just another way that the suits get to rip off the artist.

R13: It's a good thing you were not with a record label when you wrote those sixty songs in the intense creative period The Used had after your accident.
Bert: Yeah man, we're working on an EP right now, which will be another record, but we'll call it another EP just to put it in the labels face! We have so much stuff that we have to work with, like I was saying 'a snapshot in time' to me. This change that is happening in my life is a progressive change and every day is a new day. I have so much more to say than just Vulnerable about that time and this time in my life. That is why records are important in my mind.

R13: Having so much material, how do you cut down on it, or go about eliminating songs?
Bert: It's just about going through slowly and when something jumps out at you, you make a note of it. Then you take a look at that, and work on that. It is not about making big lists of things you are going to work on it's about going slow and one song idea at a time.

R13: What was the really intense creative period after your surgery like?
Bert: It was great, I was really busy. I was in the studio almost all day every day. I'm not really the type of guy who can kill song after song after song after song in the studio, but I think we wrote and recorded eleven or twelve songs in twelve days. Which, for me, was a break though in my creative world. I think it is about staying on top of it, and that is why experimentation is very important, trying to get out of your normal routine, because you can burn out really quick, especially in the studio.

R13: Do you kill your voice after a certain amount of takes?
Bert: Yeah. In the past I have done a lot of screaming and it just feels like I have less and less to scream about lately. So I can maintain my voice a little bit more. I don't scream like people scream: when I scream it's to kill myself.

R13: One of the things I like most about your vocals is the way you pass a scream into singing and then back again, sometimes within the same line. It seems to be quite controlled, the perfect example being On My Own. Is there a technique you use that people can learn from?
Bert: I think it's got to be the raw emotion inside you. But also I was born with a talent, I've been blessed in my life to be able to sing. My dad sings, my mum sings, and my parents had me study music at a very young age. I started taking piano lessons when I was almost four. I've sung in the choir my whole life, so I think it is also something you've got to practice, but if the emotion is not there I think that people will be able to hear it in your voice.

R13: A lot of the new songs have been written using a keyboard and drum loops, is that correct?
Bert: Yep.
R13: Did that leave Dan Whitesides (drums) out of the creative writing process?
Bert: Everyone had so many different things going on while we were trying to write this record that circumstantially most of the song were written on a keyboard. Dan had just been married and had a baby, and Quinn (Allman guitar) had just got married as well. So everyone was floating in and out of these creative highs and lows. For me I was just recovering from surgery and working on music, I didn't have anything else going on in my life.

R13: Would different people come to the band with completed songs? Does everybody write?
Bert: The band worked on three or four songs as a whole but the way that we conventionally, and usually, write songs is jamming out ideas as a full band, and then I will piece the song apart into a structure that I think is relevant, and then write lyrics on top of it, or use a poem that I have previously written that seems to fit the vibe. This time we just started with songs that I love, songs that I have always enjoyed listening to and saying "let's try and take a loop and a bassline that has a similar vibe to that song and see what we come up with".

R13: Thanks for taking the time out to speak with Room Thirteen. I have one final question for you. Does one of your hands get colder than the other?
Bert: Does one of my hands get colder than the other?
R13: I often see you performing wearing just the one glove!
Bert: Hahaha, that's so funny! No that is just my shout out to the reason why I do what I do, and that is Michael Jackson.

R13: Thank you for your time.